EMail Inbox "Clogged" PZ Response

[r hall]

Would like to hear what anyone else might think of this situation, I've already changed web hosting to another company so won't have access after Aug 31st, wanted to start this conversation before my account expired.


Well it all started when two of the seven e-mail accounts with my web extension started timing out and giving an error message.

I sent in a help desk ticket.

First Help Desk response:

It sounds like an issue with your Outlook, not our servers. If you can access some, but not all, that says that the server is OK.

My Response to that:

I replied that I had double checked everything and the fact that two accounts didn't work would mean something on the server because all the accounts use the same settings.

Second Help Desk response:

OK. It whould be fixed now. I tested it and there was indeed a problem. I worked on both accounts. There was an email message that was "clogging it" Spam, image that! Here are the headers from the email that was causing the problem: From StuartB@xxxxxsmail6.com Sat Aug 16

My Response to that:

If there is a piece of mail that is "clogging" the inbox it would seem to me to be a security issue with the server and there should be a way to identify such mail and keep it out of the inbox.

Third Help Desk Response:

Without looking DEEP into the actual issue of why a piece of spam mail would cause your inbox to lock up, I really can't tell you. There are many possible reasons why it can happen. We can investigate it further if you would really like to know. But that would not be covered by normal support. It was SPAM mail. If it is a server security issue as you mentioned (which is possible) its just that.....security. I can not say that it will not happen again. I can jam your email account at any time if I wish, or anyone's for that matter. Therefore, I can not say it wont happen again.


As I said before, I'm outta here, but wanted to tell the story and hear what others might have to say

I see that email problems have become a real issue today.

[kmore]

>I can not say that it will not happen again. I can jam your email
>account at any time if I wish, or anyone's for that matter.
>Therefore, I can not say it wont happen again.

As I said before, I'm outta here, but wanted to tell the story and hear what others might have to say

I see that email problems have become a real issue today.

=========================================
The tone of the reply to you doesn't make any sense at all.
I'm utterly confused also after having received a blunt reply to a
support ticket today. Where's Jim??

[stratplan]

always in the past, my support issues have been resolved promptly and with courtesy. I believe Jim did most if not all of them. I have read some rather pointed exchanges and Jim handled them all with a great deal of tact. Better than I think I might have.

It appears that PZ has engaged some (outsourced?) support that really doesn't have the zeal to help, and that could make or break a organization.

I've been around long enough to remember the days when support (not PZ) would insinuate you need to reformat your hard drive and shut off all other programs for a problem, even tho everything was working just a day ago like it was. The problem was NOT their problem, heaven forbid!

Jim, if you are monitoring - this is a clear alarm bell. I know a tone of response can be mis-interpreted in a electronic reply (hence the need for smilies every now and then) but this and the other support responses people are posting, and are unhappy with, signal some rumblings that need addressing.

[broken1]

Ditto,
I had just posted a similar case the other day where I was offended at the support response.

-Craig

[atucsonwebdesig]

I wonder if the problems I described in this post below are realted to the same issue?

http://www.page-zone.com/forums/show...&threadid=1434

[midwest]

I've always had good customer service. even tonite, I lost a site. POOF. got a call, I checked and that sucker was gone. No HTTP, no FTP, no longer any entry in WHM for the domain. An urgent help desk ticket and it was fixed. In the early AM! Took a few hours but I got a total restore of everything and osCommerce is happily chugging away again. Thanks Allen!

As for the rudness,looks like it coulda been a whole lot nicer conversation. But I too can probably clog most any outlook/OE box, afterall, it's know to have problems with certain malformed messages. Usualy it just chokes on the message and you have to find a way to delete it. But my NT box was flaking out a few weeks ago and losing network conectivity, I reistalled the latest patches again and it went away. Some crap to do with a bad patch.

Yahoo, go Billy go! Sure bet he wishes he had bought bursting right about now.

[alrac]

midwest and the support person are right, there are all kinds of ways to gum up outlook and outlook express. They are pathetic pieces of junk, that excel only at propagating viruses, worms, and Trojan horses. Before ranting about tech support over an email issue, there are a couple of things you can try first:

- log into your Webmail and have a look
- try a different mail client. They're free, after all

The support person fixed your problem, after all. I think you may not be happy with another host, because this same issue can happen anywhere.

[atucsonwebdesig]

Originally posted by alrac
midwest and the support person are right, there are all kinds of ways to gum up outlook and outlook express. They are pathetic pieces of junk, that excel only at propagating viruses, worms, and Trojan horses. Before ranting about tech support over an email issue, there are a couple of things you can try first:

- log into your Webmail and have a look
- try a different mail client. They're free, after all

The support person fixed your problem, after all. I think you may not be happy with another host, because this same issue can happen anywhere.

I have NEVER received a trojan, virus or a like via OUTLOOK or OUTLOOK EXPRESS! The only way to get it is to open file that you download. They don't "sneak" in to your system!

You don't think that Eudora, Popcorn or similar programs do not pass along all these viruses just as easily as Outlook do you?

The media talks about Microsoft because the are are the most commnly used software - not that they are the most evil.

Get all your computers up to date and you will be fine. Use a good anti-visrus software and you will be fine(keep it up to date too!).

My problem is that Outlook does not work when Outlook Express does.

Like today, 3 of my 5 email accounts for different domains will not connect to the server to check for new mail. Outlook Express is able to connect to all just fine.

I have removed and reinstalled OutLook, however, I am still in the same boat.

I have tried all the other email clients and none of them so far give me all the features(and ease)and flexibility to check multiple email acounts as OutLook Express does.

Untill I find that perfect alternative I will stick with Outlook Express.

[alrac]

Originally posted by atucsonwebdesig


I have NEVER received a trojan, virus or a like via OUTLOOK or OUTLOOK EXPRESS! The only way to get it is to open file that you download. They don't "sneak" in to your system!

How do you know your system has not already been compromised? Do you check for rootkits and Trojans? Do you run a packet sniffer to monitor outgoing traffic? Do you perform file integrity checks? Does your firewall have well-designed egress filtering? There are MILLIONS of compromised systems on the Internet- and the owners are unaware of it.

Many virii are activated simply through use of the Preview Pane, and through Outlooks's/OE's "integration" with Internet Explorer, which as we all know is hooked deep into Windows' guts

You don't think that Eudora, Popcorn or similar programs do not pass along all these viruses just as easily as Outlook do you?

They do not, and that is a fact.

The media talks about Microsoft because the are are the most commnly used software - not that they are the most evil.

It's not a question of "evil", it is a fact that Microsoft products are the most exploited because they are the easiest to exploit.

Get all your computers up to date and you will be fine. Use a good anti-visrus software and you will be fine(keep it up to date too!).

As anti-virus software is reactive, how will it protect you from new viruses? Microsoft can't keep their own systems secure- I don't believe anyone should be complacent.

The problem with Outlook/OE/Windows is your system is wide-open- once any part of it is penetrated, it is ridiculously easy to access and compromise any part of it. Other mail clients are much safer- they do not execute malicious code the way Outlook/OE do.

I have tried all the other email clients and none of them so far give me all the features(and ease)and flexibility to check multiple email acounts as OutLook Express does.

Untill I find that perfect alternative I will stick with Outlook Express.

That's your choice. I don't mean to pick on you, but after all these years and billions of dollars of damage caused by defective Microsoft products, I really don't see why anyone would continue to use them, when there are excellent, free alternatives. I make a lot of money cleaning up these messes- Sobig has been a bonanza for me. I'd much prefer to admin nice clean secure systems, but clients are usually not receptive to spending money on prevention until after they've spend a wad on cleanup.

Bugtraq and Securityfocus are excellent resources, for anyone who wants a good source of information.

[atucsonwebdesig]

I have seen many UNIX/LiNUX systems compromised just as easily as Microsoft systems.

It all comes down to keeping your boxes updated and secure with firewalls etc.

My system is free of Trojans remote monitoring software or anything else.

Why? Because I use a very good firewall that logs all outgoing and incoming traffic. If the its not on the "list" traffic does not move in or out.

I would like to see proof to your statement that free email clients to not fall victim to virus infection.

You see the main weapon against a worm, trojan or alike is to not open the attachment - this can be easily done in Outlook or express.

It simply requires end user education. I know a guy who uses Eudora and infected his office with a trojan.

I actaully prefer my MAC to my PC , however, there is still some software I use that is not made for MAC.

So if you want to be safe, use a MAC....then those pesky worms etc wont work!

Shawn

[alrac]

Normally I don't get into long arguments on forums, but you are giving incorrect information on an extremely important subject.

I did not claim that free email clients are immune to virus infection. Most of them are free, including OE. Free has nothing to do with it.

Not opening an attachment is not protection in Outlook and OE. Having only border defenses is inadequate, the wise sysadmin employs systemic protections. Bragging about not using monitoring software is rather bizarre, to say the least.

Many *nix servers do not need firewalls- Postfix, Apache, and qmail, for example, when configured correctly. But there is absolutely no way to run a Windows server outside a firewall, it would be suicide.

Unix/Linux systems are inherently more secure, and more securable. Show me any *nix mail client that will execute malicious code the way Outlook does.. just one. Or even another Windows mail client. You can't, because there isn't one. Note also that *nix has been around a lot longer than Windows, and the code is wide-open- yet malware authors target Windows. It's not because it's "popular", but because it is so easy.

User education starts at home... I'm afraid you do not have a grasp of security basics. Here is a good introduction to the issues specific to Outlook and OE:
Securing Outlook, Part Two: Many Choices to Make
http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1652

This series is also good:
Securing Privacy Part Three: E-mail Issues
http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1579

[r hall]

It seems to me that the problem of a "clogged" email inbox is a server, not a client issue.

If there are email messages that due to their content "clog" an inbox I fail to see how any client software can solve that problem.

The problem needs to be addressed at the server side, where something that can identify messages that can "clog" an inbox are identified and prevented from ever "clogging" an inbox.

the merits of any particular email client software get eliminated when the server allows the inbox to get "clogged"

unless you can tell me how a client email software can clean up server problems

Originally posted by r hall It seems to me that the problem of a "clogged" email inbox is a server, not a client issue.

If there are email messages that due to their content "clog" an inbox I fail to see how any client software can solve that problem.

The problem needs to be addressed at the server side, where something that can identify messages that can "clog" an inbox are identified and prevented from ever "clogging" an inbox.

the merits of any particular email client software get eliminated when the server allows the inbox to get "clogged"

unless you can tell me how a client email software can clean up server problems

The reason you fail to see is because you just don't know. The problem indeed sounds like Outlook is screwed up. I switched from Outlook long ago after trying it for a few months. I remember having to telnet into the popserver and talk to the pop server manually to remove the offensive messages. The mail server had no problem removing them but outlook had no idea what to do with them. Try using a better mail client there are so many out there. I have used Sylpheed http://sylpheed-claws.sourceforge.net/win32/ for a couple of years and really like it. It allows multiple email addresses to be configured. You can check many mboxes and you can even set it up so that when mail to xyz@example.com goes to folder xyz when responding to any mail in the folder it replies as xyz. This is really handy for a lot of reasons. Anyway sorry to hear you had a bad experience. But don't blame the mail problem on the server when it's your mail client that's at fault.

Now what ISP did you find?